https://despatch.blog.gov.uk/2017/08/07/driving-test-changes-the-new-instructions-examiners-will-give/

Driving test changes: the new instructions examiners will give

Driving examiner setting up a sat nav

As we gear up for the changes to the driving test on Monday 4 December 2017, we want to give you some more detailed information so you know what your pupils can expect.

We’re now starting to train our driving examiners on the changes to the test - including the new instructions they’ll give to your pupils.

I want to share these with you, along with some short videos showing some of the changes in action.

Pre-briefing at the start of the test

Here’s the new explanation that driving examiners will give at the start of the test.

The test will last about 38 to 40 minutes and will include about 20 minutes of independent driving and various roads and traffic conditions. I will ask you to complete one manoeuvre and we may carry out an emergency stop. The sort of things you’ve been practising with your instructor or accompanying driver.

The ‘tell me’ safety question

This question will still be asked at the test centre, before your pupil starts driving. Here’s the new explanation that will be used.

Now I’d like to ask you one question about your vehicle and other matters relating to vehicle safety. The second question will be a ‘show me’ question on the move.

If you'd like to make yourself comfortable in your car now please, I will join you in a moment.

The full set of possible ‘tell me’ questions is on GOV.UK.

I want to emphasise that your pupil will still need to open the bonnet if they’re asked question 12, 13 or 14.

In September, we’ll publish a video about the ‘tell me’ questions so your pupils know:

  • how to carry out the checks
  • why it’s important that they do them regularly

The ‘show me’ safety question

This question will be asked while your pupil is driving.

It can be asked at any time during the test, including during the independent driving part.

The examiner will ask the question in a location which gives your pupil enough chance to demonstrate the safety check. Here’s the instruction they’ll give.

When it’s safe, could you show me…

This video shows a couple of examples.

If your pupil isn't sure how to do it, the examiner will ask them to pull in when it’s safe and appropriate, and then ask them to find the control.

The examiner will be able to ask any of your pupils with special needs to pull in before asking the question, so they can explain what they need to do.

We’ll publish a video about the ‘show me’ questions in September, too.

Independent driving

The examiner will ask your pupil to pull over before starting the independent driving part of the test. At this point, the examiner will select and start the route, if it's using a sat nav.

Here’s the instruction that examiners will give when using a sat nav.

Shortly I’d like you to drive for some distance independently. I’d like you to follow a series of directions from the sat nav please. Continue to follow the sat nav until I tell you otherwise. Drive on when you’re ready.

Remember, 1 in 5 tests will be following traffic signs, and not directions from a sat nav. The instruction given for these will be as follows.

Shortly, I’d like you to drive for some distance independently. I’d like you to follow the traffic signs for [location] please. Continue to follow the signs until I tell you otherwise. Drive on when you're ready.

Pull up on the right and reverse

Here’s the instruction that examiners will give to your pupil while they’re driving (they won’t pull over first to give the instruction).

Pull up on the right when it is safe to do so, please.

I’d now like you to reverse back for about 2 car lengths, keeping reasonably close to the kerb.

If another vehicle pulls up behind the car and stops your pupil from reversing back, the manoeuvre won’t be completed. The examiner will ask your pupil to drive on, and another exercise will be carried out later in the test.

If a vehicle pulls up in front, the exercise will continue.

This video shows an example of the manoeuvre being carried out.

Parking in a bay

The examiner will ask your pupil to park in a bay. They'll ask them to either:

  • reverse in and drive out (only in a driving test centre car park)
  • drive in and reverse out (in any car park - including a driving test centre car park)

Here’s the instruction they’ll give to drive forward into a parking bay.

I’d like you to drive forward into a convenient parking bay finishing within the lines, either to the left or the right (if the car park allows it).

Now, I’d like you to reverse out either to the left or the right (if the car park allows it).

Your pupil doesn’t need to park in a bay where there are vehicles in adjacent bays.

Your pupil can’t drive through a first parking bay, and then park in a bay directly in front of that. When they reverse out, they can’t go into any bays behind them.

This video shows an example of the manoeuvre being carried out.

The time the test takes

As we mentioned in our original announcement back in April 2017, the length of the test won't change as a result of the changes. We've designed it to fit into the current appointment time.

If you took part in the trials of the test, you might have noticed it took a couple of minutes longer than the current test. However, we expect that to reduce as examiners become more familiar with the process. We'll also be using a different sat nav to the trial, and dash-mats, which should speed up fitting the sat nav.

We'll keep a close eye on this and carry out a timing study in March 2018, once the new test has had time to settle in.

More information

Do take a look back at the previous posts for more information about the changes - the links are at the end of this post.

If you have a question about how the test will work that isn't answered there, leave a comment here so we can get back to you.

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151 comments

  1. Comment by Hugh Scullion posted on

    Park on the right crossing the path of oncoming traffic - great! Move off crossing the path of oncoming traffic - great!

    Highway code rule 239 - DO NOT park facing against the traffic flow.

    Highway code 243 - DO NOT stop or park : opposite or within 10 metres (32 feet) of a junction, except in an authorised parking space.

    Should all road users follow the highway code or not? Or perhaps certain sections that suit only the DVSA?

    Reply
    • Replies to Hugh Scullion>

      Comment by John (DVSA) posted on

      Hi Hugh

      While The Highway Code advises to not park against the flow of traffic during the day, it's very important to remember that pulling up on the right is an entirely legal manoeuvre.

      On our busy roads, there will be times when a driver needs to pull up on the right - and they need to have the knowledge and skills to do it safely. It's vital to use a safe and systematic routine, including observations and appropriate signals. These are the skills we'll be assessing.

      It’s also important that drivers know and understand what factors to take into consideration when looking for a safe, legal and convenient place to stop. For example, a busy main road with a constant flow of traffic would not be safe or convenient.

      The candidate will need to use their understanding of these factors to choose an appropriate place to pull up on the right, when asked by the examiner.

      Thanks
      John

      Reply
      • Replies to John (DVSA)>

        Comment by Anonymous posted on

        Hi John,

        Parking across the entrance to someone's driveway isn't illegal either- but I got failed on my test for that.

        Reply
      • Replies to John (DVSA)>

        Comment by Andrew Fraser posted on

        ... and if the poor candidate chose to refuse an instruction to make such a stupid manoeuvre, s/he be failed, no doubt.

        Reply
      • Replies to John (DVSA)>

        Comment by Doug Lowes posted on

        I'm sorry but just because something is technically legal does not mean that it should be encouraged by including it in the test. There are some very good reasons why the HWC advises against the manoeuvre!
        Taking out useful reversing excercises and including more hazardous ones is not a step towards 'safe driving for life's. It's a step backwards.

        Reply
    • Replies to Hugh Scullion>

      Comment by Peter Maw posted on

      Hi
      This is from a press release by the RAC

      5. Parking on the wrong side of the road at night

      Motorists should not park on the wrong side of the road at night.

      This is not, as some may think, because you have to drive on the opposite side of the road both to enter and leave the space, actually it’s because of the risks dazzling.

      You’ll both dazzle other drivers with your headlights as you park and leave, while your rear light reflectors will also not be visible once you’ve left the car.

      This is a driving offence under rule 248 of the Highway Code and can receive a Penalty Charge Notice.

      Terrific, the DVSA wants us to commit an offence when teaching pupils at night in winter - when does the new test come in? Oh yes, that will be 3 weeks before the shortest day of the year

      Reply
      • Replies to Peter Maw>

        Comment by John (DVSA) posted on

        Hi Peter

        During daylight, it's not illegal to pull up on the right.

        As you've pointed out, at night, rule 248 of The Highway Code applies, which states:

        You MUST NOT park on a road at night facing against the direction of the traffic flow unless in a recognised parking space.

        To be absolutely clear, DVSA does not want you to commit an offence when teaching pupils. If parking against the traffic flow with your pupil at night, it will need to be in a recognised parking space.

        Thanks
        John

        Reply
    • Replies to Hugh Scullion>

      Comment by Andrew Fraser posted on

      I couldn't agree more, Hugh. Driving and parking on the wrong side of the road should be discouraged. I can't think of a single instance in forty years of driving when I've had to do it. There's always a way to approach any point in the road from the "right" side.

      Reply
  2. Comment by Glyn Marriott posted on

    I asked on 6th July 2017 if a candidate on test pulls up to park on the right what happens on test if a car then pulls up ahead and behind the candidate so preventing them reversing two car lengths and at the same time preventing forward observation to move away safely. Can the examiner advise the candidate when it is safe to move away. This question was never answered (although apparently down for mediation) and this situation did occur during last years trial. Please can I have an answer.
    Thank you.

    Reply
    • Replies to Glyn Marriott>

      Comment by John (DVSA) posted on

      Hi Glyn

      Thanks for your question, and sorry that you didn't get a response on the previous post.

      We'll ask Neil about this and get back to you as soon as we can.

      Thanks
      John

      Reply
    • Replies to Glyn Marriott>

      Comment by Anthony Wedgwood posted on

      Hi Glyn,

      Whilst I can fully appreciate where it is you are coming from, with your enquiry, I would say that skills learned in other aspects of the candidates driver Training, would assist greatly with this scenario, and therefore should be transferred in dealing with this matter without the assistance of the examiner.

      In a real life situation, they may not be in a position to draw upon the assistance of a passenger, especially if parked in a designated bay facing Contaflow with the task of emerging safely.

      After all, this is a situation we all find ourselves in, having parked on the right in a designated bay.

      On that basis, if this is a real life situation, likely to happen post test, then I'd say that the candidate should demonstrate the skills necessary to undertake the eventuality.

      I am confident that if the correct guidance is provided in dealing with this situation, it should not present itself as a problem for a candidate at the minimum required standard.

      Regards

      Anthony

      Reply
      • Replies to Anthony Wedgwood>

        Comment by Keith Paul posted on

        I, like many other ADI's, am still completely bemused by the pulling up on the wrong side of the road manoeuvre. I keep on reading and hearing comments like "it's not illegal". Just because it's not illegal, does that make it a safe manoeuvre in a revised driving test which is supposed to be reducing risks, improving driving standards, etc.

        The Highway Code does indeed state: "Do not" rather than "Must Not" when referring to Rule 239. However, the Highway Code also states: "Although failure to comply with the other rules of the Code will not, in itself, cause a person to be prosecuted, The Highway Code may be used in evidence in any court proceedings under the Traffic Acts to establish liability. This includes rules which use advisory wording such as 'should/should not' or 'do/do not'.

        Can the DVSA please advise why we are being asked to instruct our pupils, the drivers of the future, to disregard and breach this rule in the 'General rules, techniques and advice for all drivers and riders' section of the Highway Code.

        Also, how does the DVSA recommend we teach this manoeuvre in terms of disregarding the rule. The Highway Code does state: "Knowing and applying the rules contained in the Highway Code could significantly reduce road casualties. Cutting the number of deaths and injuries that occur on our roads every day is a responsibility we all share. The Highway Code can help us discharge that responsibility".

        Finally, are there any other rules in the Highway Code which no longer apply?

        Thank you.

        Reply
        • Replies to Keith Paul>

          Comment by John (DVSA) posted on

          Hi Keith

          It’s important that drivers know and understand what factors to take into consideration when looking for a safe, legal and convenient place to stop. For example, a busy main road with a constant flow of traffic would not be safe or convenient place to pull up on the right.

          We want drivers to be trained to know when it's safe and appropriate - and when it's not.

          If you need any help with your technique for teaching this manoeuvre, you can contact trainers on the official register of driving instructor training: https://www.gov.uk/find-driving-instructor-training

          All the rules in The Highway Code still apply, and you should continue to explain when different techniques may or may not be suitable depending on the conditions.

          Thanks
          John

          Reply
      • Replies to Anthony Wedgwood>

        Comment by Danny posted on

        I have never encountered this situation as I've always in my 22 years of driving and 8 years as an instructor have always followed the Highway Code in relation to this. I think the changes are laughable...reflecting real life...people also use their phone whilst driving and drive 20mph over the speed limit. Are we to teach these too. Just hope there's not a terrible accident or cars damaged due to practicing parking manoeuvres in the public car parks, or even a member of the public attacking a pupil or the instructor for being to close to his car. what will the dvsa do then?

        Reply
  3. Comment by Alastair Field posted on

    How will the sat nav be attached securely so in event of an accident it doesn't potentially harm anyone in the test vehicle?

    Reply
    • Replies to Alastair Field>

      Comment by John (DVSA) posted on

      Hi Alastair

      The examiner will position the sat nav appropriately and safely. In most cases, we won’t fix it to the windscreen - it will be on a special dash-mat so it doesn’t move or fall off. However, due to the design of some vehicles, there will be some cases where we need to mount it to the windscreen.

      Thanks
      John

      Reply
      • Replies to John (DVSA)>

        Comment by Alastair Field posted on

        Positioning of a Sat nav on a dash mat safely may be difficult in many vehicles due to the position of airbags.

        Reply
  4. Comment by peter bamforth posted on

    excellent information, very helpfull many thanks, peter bamforth

    Reply
  5. Comment by Valerie Brookes posted on

    I would like to know the exact sat nav that will be used if that is possible please

    Reply
    • Replies to Valerie Brookes>

      Comment by John (DVSA) posted on

      Hi Valerie

      Neil announced in his last blog post that we'll be using the TomTom Start 52 for the test: https://despatch.blog.gov.uk/2017/07/06/making-the-driving-test-more-reflective-of-real-life-driving/

      However, we want to emphasise that it doesn’t matter what sat nav you use for lessons. It could be an in-built sat nav, a mobile phone app, or any model of standalone sat nav.

      Thanks
      John

      Reply
      • Replies to John (DVSA)>

        Comment by Steve Burge posted on

        Talking to pupils about sat nav and telling them they they can use a phone app sounds dangerous as while following directions phone calls or txt msgs appear accidents will happen!!

        Reply
      • Replies to John (DVSA)>

        Comment by Stevie@5Day posted on

        Hi John.

        Vehicle i use has a long deep dash from consol to base of windscreen, you mention a non-slip mat to place the sat-nav on, i currently use a non slip mat that i have fashioned to suit the specific's of my dashboard, are you purchasing from a specific manufacturer your own mat's if so who is the DVSA supplier and hey' maybe a stock / part number.

        Thanks

        Reply
        • Replies to Stevie@5Day>

          Comment by Olivia (DVSA) posted on

          Hi Stevie,

          DVSA will be using a combination of a Tom Tom Start52 sat nav, mounted on a Genius flat dash-mat. This has been trialed in numerous vehicles and works extremely well. On occasions, there may be a vehicle where the dash mat is not appropriate, so in those circumstances the sat nav will be fitted to the windscreen. I want to emphasise that it doesn't matter which sat nav or dash-mat you use for practice however.

          Thanks,
          Olivia

          Reply
  6. Comment by Martin Evans posted on

    Thanks for the videos and explanations. I'm surprised a candidate isn't allowed to reverse back out of a bay using the empty bay behind if necessary. Also, why is the reverse bay park only done at test centre car parks?

    Reply
  7. Comment by B Webster posted on

    The video you show of the lady pulling forward into a bay, this shows her going completely over the white lines to get in the bay!!! If a car was there she would of hit it, is this then seen as acceptable? If yes, why is it not ok when reversing to use an empty bay behind if helpful and safe? Very confusing as you say one thing and show something different. Unless obviously the lady failed her test, in which case all is ok.

    Reply
    • Replies to B Webster>

      Comment by Olivia (DVSA) posted on

      Hi,

      Candidates won't be penalised for crossing the lines when entering the bay, as this reflects real life driving. This also applies to candidates asked to reverse into a bay and drive out. Examiners will consider whether the car could reasonably be left, in that car park in the prevailing conditions, in that position.

      Thanks,
      Olivia

      Reply
      • Replies to Olivia (DVSA)>

        Comment by James posted on

        I find the term "real world driving" scary when talking about teaching and testing learner drivers. In the "rear world" people ignore stop signs, jump red lights, ignore speed limits, ignore lane markings, drive straight over mini roundabouts. Surely learner drivers should be taught and held to the correct standards to obtain a license in a hope to increase the obismal driving standards seen in this country. And if a driver cant simply park in a bay without cutting the corner (where my or your car may be in "the real world) then maybe they shouldnt be on the road.

        Reply
  8. Comment by Peter Cary posted on

    Driving forward into the bay are you allowed to cross the lines (if not obstructed by vechiles) and finish between the lines, then are you allowed to cross the lines departing or are the candidates required to stay within the lines as if there were cars parked both sides?

    Will the examiner be advising candidates this is going against best practice and really should be avoided in the real world if possible?

    Reply
    • Replies to Peter Cary>

      Comment by Olivia (DVSA) posted on

      Hi Peter,

      Hi,

      Candidates won't be penalised for crossing the lines when entering the bay, as this reflects real life driving. This also applies to candidates asked to reverse into a bay and drive out. Examiners will consider whether the car could reasonably be left, in that car park in the prevailing conditions, in that position.

      Thanks,
      Olivia

      Reply
  9. Comment by Michael Rigby posted on

    Will the old manouvers still need covering and could they be asked to cover these on the practical test.

    Reply
    • Replies to Michael Rigby>

      Comment by John (DVSA) posted on

      Hi Michael

      The ‘reverse around a corner’ and ‘turn-in-the-road’ manoeuvres will no longer be tested, but you should still teach them. Many of the skills involved in those manoeuvres will transfer over to the new manoeuvres. They are still part of the national standard for driving cars, and the car driving syllabus.

      Thanks
      John

      Reply
      • Replies to John (DVSA)>

        Comment by Angus McFadden posted on

        As I said in a reply to a different blog post, when bay parking was not tested in my area, virtually no instructor ever taught it. When it was first introduced to tests (about 6 years ago) there was pandemonium among instructors - some didn't know how to teach it, and some refused, choosing to use other test centres instead (and forcing their pupils to take tests away from their home location).

        It was subsequently introduced to the other test centres and they had no choice, and the only residual problem was that many insisted (and still do) on practising it in the test centre car parks whether tests are coming or going, or not - and that in spite of centre managers repeatedly asking them not to.

        Some instructors will ditch the old manoeuvres even from 4 December 2017. Within a couple of years at most, almost none will cover them. Many who try will have pupils and pupils' parents on their back complaining about wasting their money (that's happened to me before when someone knew the bay park wasn't tested at the particular test centre and refused to let me teach it to them).

        DVSA has got to start accepting that it isn't dealing with the ideal people it thinks it is, and that some things have to be forced on them if they are to be carried out.

        All the manoeuvres should be potentially testable. It wouldn't be any skin of DVSA's nose if they were, since only one is ever going to be carried out.

        Reply
      • Replies to John (DVSA)>

        Comment by Angus McFadden posted on

        Incidentally, I suspect that the reason DVSA won't test ALL the manoeuvres is that underpinning all this is the government's previously stated aim to "improve the test pass rate".

        Having to learn six manoeuvres wouldn't help that at all - but removing two tricky ones and replacing them with something a child could do will.

        Reply
        • Replies to Angus McFadden>

          Comment by John (DVSA) posted on

          Hi Angus

          The reason we won't be testing them is because most fatal collisions happen on high-speed or rural roads. We have to spend a disproportionate amount of time in quieter side roads to test these manoeuvres.

          The revised manoeuvres can be carried out more naturally during the test, so we can spend more time on high-speed and rural roads.

          Thanks
          John

          Reply
          • Replies to John (DVSA)>

            Comment by Angus McFadden posted on

            John, the addition of "high-speed" roads to that list is interesting, since they were argued to be one of the safer ones a while back when the "learners on motorways" argument was raging. Rural roads I agree with, as do the stats, but the stats also show that the accidents are more common at night, and the tests won't cover that.

            Two out of three test centres in Nottingham have a token "rural" road (i.e. it has trees on it), but getting anywhere near 60mph on them is almost impossible. And getting TO them takes some time, since the test centres are in urban areas. In many cities it's worse, and "rural" means some grass growing in the cracks on the pavement!

            My argument still remains that by stating they will not be tested, the soon-to-be ex-manoeuvres will not be taught at all. And that will have a far more significant impact on future safety.

            If there was even a 1 in 100 possibility of them being tested, they would have to be taught.

          • Replies to John (DVSA)>

            Comment by Gordon Smith posted on

            Slightly strange unbalanced reasoning, yet you want Instructors to spend a disproportionate amount of time teaching turn in road and left reverse?? when we could spend more of our time on busy roads..surely the hours of training time and how it is spent is of more importance to driver development than 40 mins test...OBVIOUS? yes...will DVSA reason on that No..OBVIOUSLY...beggars belief

  10. Comment by Berkeley Sharman posted on

    I find this most interesting. However - I travel and drive in Australia and there it is illegal to park or drive against the flow of traffic. You MUST park on the left side of the road facing the direction of travel and I think it would be good to introduce this law into the UK for a whole number of reasons. It is safer to park on the left and it means that a driver will be unable to cross any oncoming traffic should they suddenly see an available parking space on the right side of the road. It would prevent them from looking for spaces on their right and then possibly cutting across two lanes of traffic to claim a free parking space. The same issue occurs when they want to drive off - the have to cut across two lanes of traffic again.

    Reply
    • Replies to Berkeley Sharman>

      Comment by John (DVSA) posted on

      Hi Berkeley

      The Highway Code advises to not park against the flow of traffic during the day, but in Great Britain, it is an entirely legal manoeuvre.

      On our busy roads, there will be times when a driver needs to pull up on the right - and they need to have the knowledge and skills to do it safely. It's vital to use a safe and systematic routine, including observations and appropriate signals. These are the skills we'll be assessing.

      It’s also important that drivers know and understand what factors to take into consideration when looking for a safe, legal and convenient place to stop. For example, a busy main road with a constant flow of traffic would not be safe or convenient.

      The candidate will need to use their understanding of these factors to choose an appropriate place to pull up on the right, when asked by the examiner.

      Thanks
      John

      Reply
      • Replies to John (DVSA)>

        Comment by Jane hudson posted on

        You've just proven that you've done a generic reply
        This is word for word to the reply above I find this disgraceful
        We are on the Rd every day teaching,yet we are being made to do a manoeuvre we as professional drivers and teachers deem unsafe ?

        Reply
        • Replies to Jane hudson>

          Comment by John (DVSA) posted on

          Hi Jane

          I'm sorry if you think this is disgraceful, or if it comes across as impersonal. Both comments make similar points and raise similar questions, and as this is the reason we're making the changes, it would be strange for me to give two entirely different responses or reasons.

          Thanks
          John

          Reply
          • Replies to John (DVSA)>

            Comment by James Martin posted on

            AD I's have been duped into the new changes by the loaded questions on the survey. All they needed was a small like to any answer to say that we wanted to change. If the question was asked do you think changes should be made, the overwhelming answer would have been NO. Once again the DVSA have got what they want, just to justify their stupid changes. Accidents will occur and now we are being pressurised into buying equipment that is TOTALLY unnecessary to be able to drive a car safely. I have driven for over 40 years and never needed a Sat nav.

          • Replies to James Martin>

            Comment by John (DVSA) posted on

            Hi James

            Unit 6.4 of the national standard for driver and rider training sets out that you must know how to safely integrate the use of sat nav into an on-road lesson and the sorts of problems that drivers can have when using them. The standard tells you everything you must be able to do to provide training: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-standard-for-driver-and-rider-training

            This has been part of the standard since November 2014.

            Thanks
            John

  11. Comment by Hilary posted on

    Hi Have any manoeuvres been dropped from the new test?

    Reply
    • Replies to Hilary>

      Comment by John (DVSA) posted on

      Hi Hilary

      The ‘reverse around a corner’ and ‘turn-in-the-road’ manoeuvres will no longer be tested, but you should still teach them. Many of the skills involved in those manoeuvres will transfer over to the new manoeuvres. They are still part of the national standard for driving cars, and the car driving syllabus.

      Thanks
      John

      Reply
  12. Comment by Findlay posted on

    If the examiner chooses to do the Indy drive the old way i.e. Following road signs, will it still be for 20 minutes or will that revert back to 10 minutes? As we will be unable to carry out an accurate mock test due to the SATNAV nonsense, this will be important.

    Reply
    • Replies to Findlay>

      Comment by John (DVSA) posted on

      Hi Findlay

      The independent driving part of the test will last for 20 minutes for both following directions from a sat nav and following traffic signs.

      Using a sat nav will help us to use better test routes with different types of roads. We currently rely on areas with suitable traffic signs - which are often urban and built-up areas.

      Using a sat nav means we won’t be restricted to using test routes that rely on traffic signs - so routes can include more of the types of roads where most fatal collisions happen.

      Research shows that 52% of car drivers have some form of sat nav. We want new drivers to be trained to use them safely, so they always act on the basis of what’s in front of them, and don’t just rely on the sat nav.

      It's vital that the driving test keeps up as vehicle technology develops.

      Thanks
      John

      Reply
  13. Comment by Peter Norman posted on

    "If your pupil isn't sure the examiner will ask them to pull in when safe and appropriate and then ask them to find the control". doesn't this defeat the object of doing it on the move, if there on a motorway they can't pull up to find out how to operate the wipers!! It's a step in the right direction doing it on the move but then going backwards allowing the pupil to pull up..... 🤔

    Reply
  14. Comment by Rebecca Mccall posted on

    Thank you found this very helpful

    Reply
  15. Comment by Margaret Houlihan posted on

    I keep shaking my head in disbelief as I read through this blog and in fact from when these changes were mooted these proposals are pandering to drivers that do whatever is convenient for them rather than considering best practice/safest option. Driving into a parking bay/driveway/side road and then reversing out because it was easier to put the shopping in or take out, or it was a very busy road so the driver have to drive forward into their drive forgetting that they have to reverse out onto a busy road with the most precious cargo in the back seat getting hurt the most when it goes wrong.
    Regarding the parking on the right I do so on my road which is a quiet road whereas if it's a busy road I will endeavour to park on the left even if I have to drive and find somewhere safe to turn round again best/safe practice rather than convenience.
    The Sat Nav section is possibly one of the better proposals as this driving aid is a useful tool provided it is used correctly.
    The changes to the show me/tell me question is good as drivers need to be competent to be able to use these on the move apart from the horn quetion as that should only be used to warn other road users of your presence therefore it is quiet rare that I use the horn.
    It is not too late to make changes to the proposal as sometimes what seemed like a good idea, when thought about a little deeper is not such a good idea after all.
    Personally if it was my choice I would have kept all the manouvres and tested them as per the emergency stop, in one in every 3 or 4 tests. I certainly wouldn't have entertained driving into a bay or parking on the right in a busy road.

    Reply
    • Replies to Margaret Houlihan>

      Comment by John (DVSA) posted on

      Hi Margaret

      Most fatal collisions happen on high-speed or rural roads. We want your pupils to spend more time driving on these roads with you, and during the test itself. This will better prepare them for driving on their own.

      Changing the manoeuvres we test means that we won’t need to spend a disproportionate amount of time in quieter side roads. The revised manoeuvres can be carried out more naturally during the test.

      As you've pointed out, people do drive forward into a parking bay, and do pull up on the right. We want to test that your pupils can do these things safely, when it’s in an appropriate place.

      We want instructors to continue doing a great job of explaining when it's appropriate, and what factors the driver needs to take into consideration before doing them.

      The changes are no longer proposals - they will be introduced on 4 December 2017. The government decided to introduce them following the public consultation that over 3,900 people took part in, and the trial of the changes that involved over 4,300 learner drivers and over 860 driving instructors.

      Thanks
      John

      Reply
  16. Comment by Mark posted on

    Could you clarify how your sat navs will be set up please? I.e. how far from junctions will instructions be given. Thanks

    Reply
    • Replies to Mark>

      Comment by Olivia (DVSA) posted on

      Hi Mark,

      The satnav will be set up using the factory settings. For more information, you can look at the user manual for the Tom Tom start 52, which is the satnav we'll be using.

      Thanks,
      Olivia

      Reply
  17. Comment by Paul posted on

    If the new test is aiming towards real live driving , with new situations. Does this mean less cancellation for bad weather as the test candidate has already drive for an hour before the test time . As we have also?

    Reply
    • Replies to Paul>

      Comment by Olivia (DVSA) posted on

      Hi Paul,

      DVSA has a duty of care when conducting driving tests. When we consider whether or not to go ahead with testing, our main priority is to make sure that it’s safe to do so for the candidate, other road users along the route, and the examiner.

      We also want to give all candidates an equal chance to be assessed fairly, to prove they are capable of continuing to learn without further supervision. Letting them take their test in adverse weather conditions may disadvantage them. We try and make sure tests go ahead wherever possible as we understand how frustrating this can be.

      Thanks,
      Olivia

      Reply
  18. Comment by John Johnson posted on

    Very informative and helpful, thank you

    Reply
  19. Comment by Mr C A Gilbert posted on

    We should all teach how to operate a piece of machinery fully and in any given situation so our students will feel confident in all environments

    Reply
    • Replies to Mr C A Gilbert>

      Comment by Paul posted on

      Here here well said that man

      Reply
    • Replies to Mr C A Gilbert>

      Comment by Russell Jones posted on

      I entirely agree. One not so small problem - people do NOT want to pay for that amount of training / education, they ONLY want to pass their test! Which is a relatively simple exercise.

      Reply
  20. Comment by Bob Keeper posted on

    How safe are the dash-mats in an emergency stop?

    Reply
    • Replies to Bob Keeper>

      Comment by Olivia (DVSA) posted on

      Hi Bob,

      The dash-mats have been tested rigorously, including during emergency stops. The dash-mat will not fall off if the candidate is asked to emergency stop.

      Thanks,
      Olivia

      Reply
      • Replies to Olivia (DVSA)>

        Comment by Bob Keeper posted on

        Hi Olivia
        thanks for the reply I have a Peugeot 208, using the dash-mats + Tom Tom start 52, I have tried a number of emergency stops, and it has moved every time.

        Reply
        • Replies to Bob Keeper>

          Comment by Olivia (DVSA) posted on

          Hi Bob,

          The dash-mat we'll be using is a Genius dash-mat. We've tested this rigorously, and the dash-mat and satnav will not fall off if the candidate is asked to emergency stop.

          Thanks,
          Olivia

          Reply
  21. Comment by Paul posted on

    How many good instructors will be leaving due to these changes?

    Reply
  22. Comment by Mark Camburn posted on

    How can we teach bay parking when our local council will not let driving school use them,

    Reply
    • Replies to Mark Camburn>

      Comment by Olivia (DVSA) posted on

      Hi Mark,

      You aren't restricted to using council owned car parks. You should consider other local car parks such as hotels and retail car parks. Remember, it's important to be considerate of the car park owners and their customers so you should vary the car parks you use and move on promptly.

      Thanks,
      Olivia

      Reply
  23. Comment by W Brough posted on

    Do the powers that be not know that it is an offence to attach any thing to the front windscreen or on the dashboard if it appears within the swept area of the windscreen wipers ?? It is also a M O T fail.
    I am a Retied Driving Instructor and Motor Engineer.

    Reply
    • Replies to W Brough>

      Comment by Olivia (DVSA) posted on

      Hi,

      The satnav will be positioned on the dashboard in a way which doesn't disrupt the driver's view of the road.

      Thanks,
      Olivia

      Reply
  24. Comment by Bill MIchie posted on

    I totally agree with Hugh Scullion that parking on the wrong side of the road should not be encouraged and the more we teach it the more people will carry out the manoeuvre, and, I would presume, the more accidents will entail as it is a dangerous, even for the experienced driver. Furthermore it will encourage the inexperienced driver to park on the wrong side of the road as we are teaching the practice, and at night, with headlights on, the oncoming cars will be blinded. Sorry but I can see no justification for this practice, in fact, I feel that, as in various other countries, it should be discouraged.

    Reply
    • Replies to Bill MIchie>

      Comment by Olivia (DVSA) posted on

      Hi Bill,

      We've included the pulling on the right manoeuvre as it’s a legal manoeuvre that’s carried out by a lot of drivers on today’s roads. Learner drivers need to have the knowledge and skills to do it safely. It's vital they use a safe and systematic routine, including using observations and appropriate signals.

      It’s also important that drivers know and understand what factors to take into consideration when looking for a safe, legal and convenient place to stop or park. For example, a busy main road with a constant flow of traffic would not be safe or convenient.

      Thanks,
      Olivia

      Reply
  25. Comment by Les Reed posted on

    Hi, Only a very minor thing but... When the "pupil" was in the car park, she crossed her arms at one point. I feel that it is important to discourage such a driving habit, as full control is not available at that moment. I appreciate that many "professional AND experienced" drivers (I have held HGV, car and motorcycle licences - for nearly 50 years) may feel comfortable deviating from the "2-10 or 3-9" positions - accompanied by wheel shuffling - but the amount of times I have seen "P" plate drivers getting into a pickle during "slow speed" manoeuvring with "hands crossed", is more than I'd like. Any thoughts? Cheers Les Reed

    Reply
    • Replies to Les Reed>

      Comment by John (DVSA) posted on

      Hi Les

      Driving examiners assess the candidate’s ability to control the vehicle, and don't consider it a fault if they don't hold the steering wheel at ten to two, or quarter to three, or if they cross their hands when turning the steering wheel.

      The assessment is based on whether the steering is smooth, safe and under control.

      Thanks
      John

      Reply
  26. Comment by Alan posted on

    Hi there

    Will the DVSA be releasing information to instructors as to what will be expected for the new bay park and right reverse.

    I think the vast majority of instructors will be able to determine what is needed and teach accordingly but there may specific checks that the examiner will be looking for.

    Thanks

    Alan

    Reply
    • Replies to Alan>

      Comment by John (DVSA) posted on

      Hi Alan

      We'll continue making information available between now and the introduction of the changes in December. This will include making the updated guidance that driving examiners use when they carry out the driving test (sometimes known as the 'DT1') available.

      In the meantime, is there anything specific that you'd like to know that isn't covered in Neil's blog post?

      Thanks
      John

      Reply
  27. Comment by Haydn Jenkins posted on

    I really don't see following the spoken instructions from a satnav any different that following, the spoken instructions by the examiner, therefore it is not independent driving, and of no real world value, following road signs, takes more skill, therefore not all candidates will have an equal test.

    Reply
    • Replies to Haydn Jenkins>

      Comment by John Atkinson-Brown posted on

      Hi Haydn, I recently purchased the TomTom 52 Sat Nav which will operate apparently on "factory settings" according to an earlier reply to a question posted.. I can advise that following directions given by this device is very different from the directions currently given by examiners. Especially roundabouts where the phrase is: "Go around the roundabout it's the second exit." Now that's somewhat different from: "At the roundabout follow the road ahead, it's the second exit." There are other subtle differences.

      Reply
  28. Comment by Paul Gurd posted on

    Due to the cost of lessons and the time it takes to get to test standard, how am I going to convince my learners that they still need to learn the 'turn-in-the-road' and 'reverse around a corner' even though it won't be asked for during their tests? I feel that both manoeuvres are very important, firstly to help with clutch control and steering, and secondly to know which way, and how much to steer when reversing.
    Learner drivers will all know from friends etc. that these manoeuvres aren't required so will just change instructors if I teach them, (as some instructors won't teach them), therefore I will lose out and so will the learners.
    Can't we just have tests that could do any one of the 6 manoeuvres, then we can justify teaching them?

    Reply
  29. Comment by Bunny Aristides posted on

    Parking on the right: student spots enough space on the right but there is oncoming traffic and traffic behind. From a test point of view is it acceptable to slow down and stop for oncoming traffic and then cut across when safe, having stopped traffic behind to carry this out?

    Reply
    • Replies to Bunny Aristides>

      Comment by Olivia (DVSA) posted on

      Hi,

      Yes, to carry out the manoeuvre safely, candidates would be expected to slow down and stop if appropriate when pulling up on the right.

      Thanks,
      Olivia

      Reply
      • Replies to Olivia (DVSA)>

        Comment by David Harrison posted on

        Hi Olivia,
        An examiner, an instructor, a parent or friend acting as a supervising driver and probably a learner driver will almost certainly be killed within a fairly short time following the introduction of 'pulling up on the right' to the driving test.

        I've copied this blog and this thread of questions and answers.

        Would DVSA like to take this opportunity to apologise in advance to the relatives of those killed or injured?

        Reply
        • Replies to David Harrison>

          Comment by Olivia (DVSA) posted on

          Hi David,

          On our busy roads, there will be times when a driver needs to pull up on the right - and they need to have the knowledge and skills to do it safely. It's vital to use a safe and systematic routine, including observations and appropriate signals. These are the skills we'll be assessing.

          It’s important that drivers know and understand what factors to take into consideration when looking for a safe, legal and convenient place to stop. For example, a busy main road with a constant flow of traffic would not be safe or convenient.

          The candidate will need to use their understanding of these factors to choose an appropriate place to pull up on the right, when asked by the examiner.

          Thanks,
          Olivia

          Reply
  30. Comment by Dafydd smith Adi posted on

    Hi thank u for the videos,give's me and student's an insight into how new test will work, I noticed when pupil was asked to drive Forwards into a car park bay they went over lines to finish in between the lines, I was under impression u have to avoid cross lines to park like reverse into a bay 🤔 So is okay to do that ?

    Reply
    • Replies to Dafydd smith Adi>

      Comment by Olivia (DVSA) posted on

      Hi Dafydd,

      Candidates won't be penalised for crossing the lines when entering the bay, as this reflects real life driving. This also applies to candidates asked to reverse into a bay and drive out. Examiners will consider whether the car could reasonably be left, in that car park in the prevailing conditions, in that position.

      Thanks,
      Olivia

      Reply
  31. Comment by David mayled posted on

    No are not going to aske the pupil to sound the horn while driving on a public road are you ????

    Reply
    • Replies to David mayled>

      Comment by Olivia (DVSA) posted on

      Hi David,

      The examiner will choose an appropriate moment to instruct the candidate to sound the horn. This will minimise any risk of causing alarm to others.

      Thanks
      Olivia

      Reply
  32. Comment by JOHN FISH posted on

    Every day, I witness selfish drivers cutting across busy roads, often forcing oncoming traffic to stop suddenly, in order to park on the right, and I actively discourage this practice, whether it's lawful or not. The fact that people do it, doesn't mean we should include it in the test.
    People accelerate to beat the traffic lights- why don't we include this in the test! I have, in the past, berated police officers from carrying out these practices. The problem we have is bad driver attitudes, and to echo Mr. Sharman, it's illegal in Australia and should be made illegal here for one simple reason: most drivers don't have a clue about what is safe, because they will justify unsafe manoeuvres in order to convenience themselves, including ignoring no right turn signs, not complying with a left turn only etc, all sec22 contraventions. I could witter on all day about this; by the way, I've also witnessed some awful rtcs, involving phones, sat navs and other distractions. Safe driving for life? Think again DVSA.

    Reply
    • Replies to JOHN FISH>

      Comment by John (DVSA) posted on

      Hi John

      There will be times when a driver needs to pull up on the right - and they need to have the knowledge and skills to do it safely. It's vital to use a safe and systematic routine, including observations and appropriate signals. These are the skills we'll be assessing.

      As you've said, you see drivers pulling up on the right every day - possibly when it's not safe or convenient to do so.

      It’s important that drivers know and understand what factors to take into consideration when looking for a safe, legal and convenient place to stop. For example, a busy main road with a constant flow of traffic would not be safe or convenient place to pull up on the right.

      So that's why we want drivers to be trained to know when it's safe and appropriate - and when it's not.

      You mentioned that you've also witnessed collisions which have involved sat navs. I'm sorry to hear that - I don't think anyone can underestimate the impact of witnessing the aftermath of a collision.

      But it's one of the reasons that we want drivers to be trained to use sat navs safely, so they always act on the basis of what’s in front of them, and don’t just rely on the sat nav, or become distracted by it. It's vital that driver training and the driving test keeps up as vehicle technology develops.

      Using a sat nav will also help us to use better test routes, with different types of roads. We currently rely on areas with suitable traffic signs - which are often urban and built-up areas. But most fatal collisions happen on high-speed or rural roads.

      Using a sat nav means we can include more of the types of roads in driving test routes.

      Thanks
      John

      Reply
      • Replies to John (DVSA)>

        Comment by Helen posted on

        YOU state - There will be times when a driver NEEDS to pull up on the right - and they need to have the knowledge and skills to do it safely. It's vital to use a safe and systematic routine, including observations and appropriate signals. These are the skills we'll be assessing.

        I do not see a need to park facing oncoming traffic. Pray tell - when is there a NEED to pull up on the right? Looking at cars parked or being parked on the right all I see is someone who could not be bothered - could not find another spot (in a busy road where you say this should not be done) In the quiet roads you suggest this to be done you might as well turn the car around or revers around a corner or drive around the block to get into the same space. Then when you need to leave again being alone in the car you are not likely to have an accident in doing so should you now be parked with other cars stopping there after you.

        Reply
        • Replies to Helen>

          Comment by Olivia (DVSA) posted on

          Hi Helen,

          There might be times when it's easier for a driver to pull on the right. For example, when pulling over to nip into a shop, post a letter, deliver a parcel or even if you live on the right-hand side of the road. So, it’s important learner drivers are trained to do it safely.

          Thanks,
          Olivia

          Reply
          • Replies to Olivia (DVSA)>

            Comment by G posted on

            You haven't pointed out any reasons for parking against the traffic, only reasons to park safely with the flow of traffic and cross the road by foot, or turn the vehicle around and park again with the flow of traffic.

            There IS NEVER a reason to park opposing the traffic. I don't understand how something considered by most safe drivers in the UK to be stupid and inconsiderate and in other countries illegal could be made part of our test.

            The result will be an increase in accidents. I can't imagine it being too long before the test gets changed again.

            Well done DVSA

          • Replies to G>

            Comment by Julia (DVSA) posted on

            Hi G

            Pulling up on the right is a perfectly legal manoeuvre and carried out every day. While it is not best practice, it is a fact that new drivers will do it, so it is far better that they are trained to do so safely, rather than leaving it to chance when inexperienced. In terms of the test, the location will be carefully selected, so as to adequately test the skill but in a safe environment.

            Thanks

            Julia

  33. Comment by James davies posted on

    Will pupils be able to 're-position' during the bay park as they can at present ?

    Reply
    • Replies to James davies>

      Comment by Chris (DVSA) posted on

      Hello,

      Corrective shunts will be allowed if required. It's about the candidate's control, accuracy, and observations.

      Thanks,

      Chris

      Reply
  34. Comment by Rod Tipple posted on

    Less than 10% of ADIs were consulted ?
    Learners had no choice in the trials and we have seen no evidence to demonstrate their success or relevance ?
    The argument for change is very weak.
    From a road safety point of view we should surly be teaching BEST PRACTICE regardless of what people do after passing their test.
    Do we now teach how to exceed the speed limits and ilegal parking as many motorists do these things ?
    Its getting more and more difficult to drive as the amount of traffic we have to deal with increases this makes the test more difficult.
    It seems like change for change sake and examiners not navigating what is that about .
    As for Sat navs, you point out just 52% of drivers have some form of this , i do but rarely use it and then not when on the move as i suspect lots of others do likewise.
    Why not look at improving LGV, PSV and motorcycle training as ADIs are always be expected to change things.
    What is happening with attitude training and enforcement ?

    Reply
    • Replies to Rod Tipple>

      Comment by John (DVSA) posted on

      Hi Rod

      Thanks for your comment.

      There are a couple of things here that aren't actually true, so I want to address them so other people aren't confused.

      You say that less than 10% of ADIs were consulted. All ADIs were asked to respond to the consultation, but not all did. Of everyone who responded, the results show that:

      - 88.2% agreed with increasing the length of the independent driving part of the test
      - 70.8% agreed with asking candidates to follow directions from a sat nav
      - 78.6% agreed with the plans to change how the reversing manoeuvres are tested
      - 78.4% agreed with asking the ‘show me’ question while the candidate is driving

      You say that learners had no choice in the trials. I'm not quite sure what you mean here, but learner drivers had to register to take part in the trial, and it was entirely their choice to do so. You can view an archived copy of the guidance here: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/take-part-in-the-driving-test-trial-if-youre-a-learner-driver

      You also say that we've seen no evidence to demonstrate the success or relevance of the trial. A summary of the research from the trials shows that:

      - when compared with those who have just passed the existing test, those passing the new test had slightly more insight into their (relatively low) level of skill
      - the 2 main trial samples did report slightly fewer near-collisions in their first 6 months of driving than the national comparison sample (we can’t be sure if it’s due to the preparation received for the new test, or due to other specific differences about the main trial groups)

      The summary is published online, and the full report will be published in due course: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/improving-the-driving-test-summary-of-research-findings

      We do not want anyone to teach their pupils how to exceed speed limits or park illegally. As has been mentioned, The Highway Code advises to not park against the flow of traffic during the day. However, it's very important to remember that pulling up on the right is an entirely legal manoeuvre.

      You also mentioned motorcycle training. You be aware that DVSA and the Department for Transport consulted on a range of proposals to improve moped and motorcycle training earlier in the year. We're analysing the responses, and the next steps will be set out in due course: https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/improving-moped-and-motorcycle-training

      But preparing new car drivers is vital. Road collisions are the biggest killer of young people. They account for over a quarter of all deaths of those aged between 15 and 19. We want to reduce that.

      It's fair to say that we expect ADIs to meet the national standard for driver and rider training, which sets out what you must be able to do and what you must know and understand to provide training: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-standard-for-driver-and-rider-training As technology and the road network changes, the standard will continue to evolve.

      Thanks
      John

      Reply
      • Replies to John (DVSA)>

        Comment by Helen posted on

        - 78.6% agreed with the plans to change how the reversing manoeuvres are tested

        Please let us know how many instructors were involved in bringing this %. I do not think I have met a single instructor who agrees with encouraging parking on the right - having to teach learners to park on the right. WHERE IS THE NEED - I DO NOT SEE IT

        Reply
    • Replies to Rod Tipple>

      Comment by Kevin jones posted on

      Actually works out at 1.9% of registered adi's in Britain!

      Reply
  35. Comment by J.carr posted on

    Latest information on holding the steering wheel suggests 10-2 and 9-3 could be more dangerous in accident due to air bags going off , and possibly 8-4 is safer ,

    Reply
    • Replies to J.carr>

      Comment by Russell Jones posted on

      Steering 8-4 style is MORE likely to lead to loss of control and a collision. Then air bags may not save lives of the occupants.
      Far better to use 'best practice' steering.

      Reply
  36. Comment by Matthew Newman posted on

    Personally I think all 6 manoeuvres should be apart of the test as so many ADIs will stop training people to do the Turn in Road and Reverse round a corner. One thing I would like to see change about the driving test. The word 'driving test' to 'driving assessment' or something along those lines. Pupils fear the word 'test' and they go in thinking it's either going to be a pass or fail. I tell people they are taking a driving assessment and I need a second opinion to assess if they are safe enough before going complete independent and obtaining a full licence.

    Reply
    • Replies to Matthew Newman>

      Comment by John (DVSA) posted on

      Hi Matthew

      Thanks for the comment.

      Because most fatal collisions happen on high-speed or rural roads, we want your pupils to spend more time driving on these during the test.

      Changing the manoeuvres we test means that we won’t need to spend a disproportionate amount of time in quieter side roads. The revised manoeuvres can be carried out more naturally during the test, so we can spend more time on those other roads.

      That's the reason that we won't be testing them. However, the manoeuvres are important, and should still be taught - and they'll continue to be part of the national standard for driving and the syllabus.

      You raise an interesting point about the use 'driving test' vs 'driving assessment'. How do your pupils react to 'driving assessment' and the way you describe it?

      Thanks
      John

      Reply
      • Replies to John (DVSA)>

        Comment by Matthew Newman posted on

        Thanks for replying John, I've already started taking pupils on rural roads and it's great to see people needing to plan ahead because they are thinking 'can they stop within the distance they can see to be clear?' .
        In regards to the driving test being called 'the driving test' I tell people to not think of it as a driving test but an assessment. I tell them that the examiners want to share the road with safe drivers and if they can show the examiners they are safe they will be happy to share the roads with them. So instead of going in thinking it's either going to be a 'pass' or 'fail' they are less likely to worry if they go in thinking 'I'm going to show the examiners I'm safe enough on the road'. It just gets them into a better frame of mind.
        It's had a really positive impact on people's results.
        Personally I think pass or fail is too black and white when driving is never black and white it's more grey.
        That's one of the advantages to the new part 3. An SEs faults can be predictable if the PDI practices and prepares enough for it (black and white). But real pupils are unpredictable sometimes. (Grey area).
        I hope I'm making sense.
        Bottom line is ADIs should be the one to go 'you're a safe driver, lets get a second opinion/assessment from an examiner and get you your full licence'.
        Besides its potentially dangerous for young people to view it as a test because they will more than likely to think 'once I've passed I can do whatever I want, and I've got to learn to pass a test' rather than learn to drive.
        Matthew

        Reply
  37. Comment by Berkeley Sharman posted on

    Thank you John Fish for your support in this very important issue of crossing oncoming traffic in order to secure an available parking place. All Australians know the law so they don't even try to do it and vistors are advised when they collect their rental cars. I accept that presently it IS legal in Great Britain but I am suggesting that the law should be changed and there should be a period of grace for the message to get across. This blog is concerened about the changing driving test - I am suggesting that we could also improve the overall behaviour of drivers which would lead to a safer environment for us all. I doubt that this would need a change in Primary legislation and could be done with a simple order in council. What is necessary is to get DVLA to fully consider what I have said and not to dismiss my suggestion out of hand.

    Reply
  38. Comment by Kevin Mears posted on

    I personally do not feel pulling up on the right is ever necessary only lazy. This should not be used as an excuse to train people to do it.

    The forward bay park shown in the video shows the driver cutting a large amount of the bay next to the target bay. Good luck finding that many empty spaces in december in a car park. How is this acceptable as would be impossible if only one space is available.

    When the sat nav is on a mat on the dash and an emergency stop is required who will pay for the cracked windscreen as it flies forward?

    Many of your replies to comments say we should still train people for safe driving and pass on the skill and knowledge about what is safe, but till it is mandatory to use a qualified ADI how will this ever happen. Even if it was only to be 10 or 20 hours mandatory to start with it would still get a safer result across the board and ensure skills are taught correctly

    Reply
    • Replies to Kevin Mears>

      Comment by Olivia (DVSA) posted on

      Hi Kevin,

      Pulling up on the right is a legal manoeuvre that’s carried out by a lot of drivers on today’s roads. You might use it when pulling over to nip into a shop, post a letter, deliver a parcel or even if you live on the right-hand side of the road. So, it’s important learner drivers are trained to do it safely.

      Candidates won't be penalised for crossing the lines when entering the bay, as this reflects real life driving. This also applies to candidates asked to reverse into a bay and drive out. Examiners will consider whether the car could reasonably be left, in that car park in the prevailing conditions, in that position.

      The dash-mats have been tested rigorously, including during emergency stops. The dash-mat and satnav will not fall off if the candidate is asked to emergency stop.

      Thanks,
      Olivia

      Reply
  39. Comment by Dave c posted on

    I would love to continue to teach the turn in the road and reverse around the corner but most pupils and parents would kick off paying for something they won't be tested on I don't mind the new Manoeuvers but don't agree with the sat nav assessment I have tried it and find it often dangerous they get confused and start staring at the screen I suppose more prcactise is needed

    Reply
  40. Comment by Matt posted on

    Will the reverse on the opposite side of the road count as a manoeuvre, and if not will it be on every test?

    Reply
    • Replies to Matt>

      Comment by John (DVSA) posted on

      Hi Matt

      Pulling up on the right and reversing will be one of 3 possible reversing manoeuvres. The full list is:

      - parallel park at the side of the road
      - park in a bay - either driving in and reversing out, or reversing in and driving out (the examiner will tell your pupil which they have to do)
      - pull up on the right-hand side of the road, reverse for 2 car lengths and rejoin the traffic

      Thanks
      John

      Reply
  41. Comment by John posted on

    Hi,
    Will the pupil on test have the option to choose feet or metres distances when following voice commands on the sat nav?

    Reply
    • Replies to John>

      Comment by Olivia (DVSA) posted on

      Hi John,

      The satnav instructions will be given in yards. Your pupil won't be able to change this.

      Thanks,
      Olivia

      Reply
  42. Comment by Graham Carroll posted on

    I can't see any evidence that the new manoeuvres, allow the pupil to spend more time on high speed roads, ( at my test centre we have for years had many high speed roads on routes) you've already pointed out that the pulling over on the right will be done on quieter roads. Also why abort the manoeuvre if a vehicle pulls up behind, the pupil has already carried out the most important part of the manoeuvre and will again when moving away?

    Reply
    • Replies to Graham Carroll>

      Comment by Olivia (DVSA) posted on

      Hi Graham,

      Revising the manoeuvres will allow more of these high-risk roads to be included in driving test routes, as not all of them will need to be carried out on quieter side streets.

      Using a sat nav on the test will also help to introduce better routes and different types of roads. Currently, we’re restricted to carrying out the independent drive on roads where there are suitable road signs. This is often in urban and built up areas. Using a sat nav means we’ll be able to conduct more of the test in more challenging driving environments such as on rural roads where there are fewer traffic signs.

      When carrying out the pulling up on the right manoeuvre, it's important the candidate can also demonstrate they have the skill set to reverse back safely and complete the manoeuvre.

      Thanks,
      Olivia

      Reply
  43. Comment by Tony Clarke posted on

    This is very interesting reading - but rather shocking. The syllabus is what we are meant to be teaching and we still should. Nothing has changed here. If ADI's cut bits out because 'it won't be tested' they are simply incompetent. (e.g. I just wonder how many ADI's teach a right hand reverse round a corner?)

    Yes - of course learners want to get their test in minimal time and at lowest cost. But that doesn't mean it's right! (NB in the Netherlands ONLY an ADI can teach learners and only the ADI can apply for their client's theory and practical test - when they are ready). So maybe with better and more training new drivers in the UK would be less likely to crash afterwards.

    I'm all for testing what drivers will inevitably be doing in the real world. Why not a right hand parallel park? It's something drivers often have to do on our busy, congested roads. Just learn to do it safely!

    Reply
    • Replies to Tony Clarke>

      Comment by Angus McFadden posted on

      Unfortunately, it comes down to what IS taught - not what SHOULD be taught.

      If it isn't tested, it simply becomes moot.

      The whole purpose of a syllabus in other forms of education is that knowledge of it can be tested at some point. Even when I was at school doing 'O' Levels, teachers were focusing (and dropping hints) on subjects likely to appear in that year's papers.

      In this case, how will anyone ever know if an ADI is teaching a non-tested manoeuvre or not?

      Reply
    • Replies to Tony Clarke>

      Comment by Stevie@5Day posted on

      Nicely put Tony, as an ADI since 2002 i myself do teach the parallel park on the right hand side, i also teach reverse around a right hand corner as per the old DSA Instructors Manual, both of which are not used by examiners on test.
      Am appalled at some of the comments on here from other ""ADI"" and hear the same comments from pupils that transfer to me from other ""ADI"" when they hear from they're friends all the things i do to ensure theyre friends (my pupils) are safe, some ""ADI"" even insisting they take a driving test in a centre 30 miles away passing 2 equally good driving test centre's just to avoid doing bay parks, i took part in the trials and found them to be beneficial to my pupils and have since the trials finished, continued teaching everything requiredto ensure my pupils leave the test centre safe and confident drivers.
      Although the DVSA statistics dont show all my pupils that have passed through learning with me on they're website ((""annoyed about that i am indeed, another subject entirely"")) i am currently averaging 65 test pass's per annum over the last 7 years, my pupils know from day one that they will be put through for a practical driving test on condition that i know they are safe and in control to be alone in a car regardless of what the parents say.

      Reply
      • Replies to Stevie@5Day>

        Comment by James Martin posted on

        Why do you think the right hand reverse round the corner was abolished. Because the DVSA found it to be dangerous to face oncoming traffic for inexperienced drivers. Now they have changed their mind yet again. Totally bonkers guys!!!

        Reply
  44. Comment by Val Clarke posted on

    Interesting that the OFFICIAL video of washing the front window does not involve a mirror check for some hapless motorcyclist behind!

    Reply
    • Replies to Val Clarke>

      Comment by Stevie@5Day posted on

      Hopefully the pupils being put forward for a practical driving test will have been taught the observational skills required for operating screen washers, as per the motorcyclist ((i am one of these)) will have good road sense not to tailgate motorist's and be subjected to over-spray from screen washers, it wont reach if a safe distance is maintained.

      Reply
  45. Comment by Andy McIntosh posted on

    Will you be publishing the sat nav routes for each test centre that you plan to use, as you can cover a hell of a distance in 20 minutes?

    Reply
    • Replies to Andy McIntosh>

      Comment by John (DVSA) posted on

      Hi Andy

      We don't publish driving test routes - and we won't be making the preloaded sat nav routes available.

      This is to make sure that the driving test reflects realistic driving conditions.

      Thanks
      John

      Reply
      • Replies to John (DVSA)>

        Comment by Graham Carroll posted on

        You should publish test routes, to reflect real life driving. Who on earth gets in a car, having no idea where they are heading?

        Reply
        • Replies to Graham Carroll>

          Comment by Angus McFadden posted on

          They used to publish them.

          You could always identify a test route road by the number of non-test driving school cars getting in each other's (and examiners') way. Routes were even on sale on some driving school websites a few years ago.

          If you really want to know test routes, you can sit in and watch where they go, or leave your mobile phone in the car with a suitable GPS app which records the route.

          The precise routes seem to evolve (i.e. change) quite quickly these days.

          Reply
  46. Comment by Mr Deonath Gosein posted on

    I am astounded.All of what has been mentioned-makes a need to read them all.I can't wait for the 4/12/2017.
    One point- As I understand - it is illegal to pk.facing oncoming traffic at night.But we are teaching Learners to Pk.on the right.during the day.Do you think they will understand the difference.Is the Insurance industry aware of this move.I await your comments.Please reply.please please.Thanks so much. Nath.

    Reply
  47. Comment by LB posted on

    I am 66 years of age and have NEVER in my years of driving parked on the right side of the road.I have always parked on the left .I have been a driving instructor for about 14 years and feel this move is wrong.I know so many drivers do park on the right but if it was made illegal then perhaps it would curb drivers not to do it.I see so many drivers regularly on the highstreet stop the traffic to do a turn in the road ,do you think thats the next thing we will be teaching our pupils.

    Reply
  48. Comment by John Clark posted on

    I keep seeing that the justification for teaching people to pull up on the right or drive forwards into a parking bay is "it's something people do, we've got to teach them to do it safely". Why not teach them to not do it instead?

    People regularly drive at 35mph on 30mph roads. Should we be teaching pupils to do that "safely"?

    Reply
    • Replies to John Clark>

      Comment by Chris B (DVSA) posted on

      Hi John

      We do need to teach people to do this safely. It's vital to use a safe and systematic routine, including observations and appropriate signals. These are the skills we'll be assessing.

      It’s also important that drivers know and understand what factors to take into consideration when looking for a safe, legal and convenient place to stop. For example, a busy main road with a constant flow of traffic would not be safe or convenient.

      The candidate will need to use their understanding of these factors to choose an appropriate place to pull up on the right, when asked by the examiner.

      Thanks

      Chris

      Reply
  49. Comment by John Clark posted on

    Olivia from the DVSA says "Using a sat nav on the test will also help to introduce better routes and different types of roads. Currently, we’re restricted to carrying out the independent drive on roads where there are suitable road signs. This is often in urban and built up areas."

    Sorry, but I don't believe that excuse. Suitable road signs are most usually found on high-speed roads. It's precisely on urban roads and in built up areas that there is a lack of direction signs.

    Reply
  50. Comment by Neil Sayers posted on

    During a recent lesson I was teaching pulling up on the right. Whilst the pupil was reversing a Tesco delivery van pulled up in front of us although far enough away not to be a problem.
    My pupil asked me what should she do if it had parked right in front of us. I asked her what does she think is the safest coarse of action. She gave me the following two answers.
    1. Ask me or the examiner if it is safe to pull out.
    2. Wait for the delivery man to do his delivery and return to his van and drive off.
    Both very good answers and clearly the safest coarse of action but would either be acceptable on test?

    Reply
    • Replies to Neil Sayers>

      Comment by Olivia (DVSA) posted on

      Hi Neil,

      The examiner will select a suitable road and give the candidate the opportunity to pull up on the right in a safe place. There will be no requirement for any parked vehicles to be in the vicinity.
      In the unlikely event of two vehicles arriving at the location whilst the candidate is stationary and blocking in the candidate’s view, then the examiner would control the situation and give appropriate advice to the candidate.

      Thanks,
      Olivia

      Reply
  51. Comment by Mario lee posted on

    To the best of my knowledge I once heard on the news about a year ago maybe longer that having a satnav anywhere in the Ark of the windscreen wiper is illegal could you clarify this please

    Reply
    • Replies to Mario lee>

      Comment by Julia (DVSA) posted on

      Hi Mario

      The device will be attached to the dashboard in a position which does not disrupt the driver's view.
      Thanks

      Julia

      Reply
  52. Comment by James Martin posted on

    I noticed in an earlier reply to me , that there was no comment to the survey being loaded towards making it obvious you would get a result that looked to justifying the changes using Sat navs. Had a survey of AD I ' s been asked a simple yes or no to whether we liked the changes , the obvious answer was no. I Don't know any of my fellow ADI' S who wanted the change. You refer ro 2014 standards. Was that changed by ADI'S ??? I recently had a standards check test and missed out by 1 Mark to achieve grade A. I felt this was entirely ridiculous , I feel it was fixed to down grade me. but we just have to accept the decision by the DVSA. It seems we just have to fall into line with what the DVSA decide and we can't change anything. Thank goodness I have only a limited time left as an ADi .

    Reply
  53. Comment by David Jones posted on

    DVSA are set on this course and all concerned have to accept its happening .
    It's only the best of ADI that are interested to make comment and so much negativity is not unexpected.
    What will be will be and the outcome of changes to the driving test is ultimately the CDEs responsibility .

    Reply
  54. Comment by Chris Stuttard posted on

    You quoted above 'Most fatal collisions happen on high-speed or rural roads. We want your pupils to spend more time driving on these roads, and the test is to reflect modern everyday driving. When is motorway driving going to be included?

    Reply
    • Replies to Chris Stuttard>

      Comment by John (DVSA) posted on

      Hi Chris

      Most fatal collisions happen on high-speed roads (not including motorways). Casualty statistics show that motorways are our safest roads, but some new drivers are so intimidated by the motorway environment that they choose instead to use statistically more dangerous roads - like rural A roads.

      We've announced that ADIs will be able to provide motorway lessons to learner drivers from 2018: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/learner-drivers-will-be-allowed-on-motorways-from-2018

      Motorway driving will be not be included in the driving test changes coming into force on 4 December 2017. However, we keep the test under review and will monitor this.

      Thanks
      John

      Reply
  55. Comment by Jane Hinis posted on

    Just an observation regarding the Tell Me questions. My car no longer has a dipstick or a visible brake fluid bottle as I suspect many don't. Both are checked from inside the car using the computer, so it would be more accurate if the wording be changed to reflect this.

    Reply
  56. Comment by John Guest posted on

    Currently, pupils with reading difficulties can request an Independent Driving section with a series of instructions instead of "following signs". Will this facility be available when the new test begins in December if its a Driving Test not using SatNav?
    This is the second time I have asked this question. The first attempt shows "Awaiting moderation"

    Reply
    • Replies to John Guest>

      Comment by Olivia (DVSA) posted on

      Hi John,

      Should the candidate require further assistance from the examiner in any times of confusion, then this will be provided.

      Thanks,
      Olivia

      Reply
  57. Comment by Richard Coyle posted on

    20% of tests will involve following road directions, not following SatNav directions. Currently a series of directions can be given verbally or by the use of a diagram. Will this method continue, or will only road sign/directions be used.

    Reply
    • Replies to Richard Coyle>

      Comment by Olivia (DVSA) posted on

      Hi Richard,

      Should the candidate require further assistance from the examiner in any times of confusion, then this will be provided.

      Thanks,
      Olivia

      Reply
      • Replies to Olivia (DVSA)>

        Comment by Richard Coyle posted on

        You have completely missed the point of my question. Nothing to do with confusion. During a test, at the moment, the examiner may pull out diagrams showing directions they want the candidate to follow. Will they still use these diagrams or not? If you don't know what I mean, please refer to your website, or ask an examiner.

        Reply
  58. Comment by Keith Willicombe posted on

    Ridiculous changes, the DVSA should change it's charter to 'teaching bad habits and unsafe driving for life'. All you have to do is look at the previous comments made to see the feelings of ADI's are almost unanimously AGAINST the changes. I have asked about 80 ADI's about parking up on the right and ONE thought it was a good idea! Why don't you listen! It's very interesting you only mention people parking on the right to 'post a letter', a lot of people park on the right and leave their cars there for a while to shop or visit friends. Inevitably when they return others will have parked in front and behind them leaving them in the very awkward and dangerous position of having to creep blindly out into the road as they will not have the luxury of reversing back 2 car lengths. I see it happen at a popular park near me every day and I tell my pupils that's why you never park against the flow of traffic - good practice. It's a sad day for our industry when we ignore safely for goodness knows why. What are we doing teaching to unsafe driving? To finish I saw a girl on a bike almost killed at that park by a driver moving off for the right, he moved slowly as he couldn't see down the road but he edged out just as she was going passed him - she panicked swerved and fell off her bike as a car was coming the other way, he swung his car to the left and hit a parked car but saved her life - let's teach people to park on the left where you have excellent observation the way we always have or when will the 1st death on the roads be attributed the DVSA

    Reply
    • Replies to Keith Willicombe>

      Comment by Chris B (DVSA) posted on

      Hi Keith

      The Highway Code advises to not park against the flow of traffic during the day, but it's very important to remember that pulling up on the right is an entirely legal manoeuvre.

      On our busy roads, there will be times when a driver needs to pull up on the right - and they need to have the knowledge and skills to do it safely. It's vital to use a safe and systematic routine, including observations and appropriate signals. These are the skills we'll be assessing.

      It’s also important that drivers know and understand what factors to take into consideration when looking for a safe, legal and convenient place to stop. For example, a busy main road with a constant flow of traffic would not be safe or convenient.

      The candidate will need to use their understanding of these factors to choose an appropriate place to pull up on the right, when asked by the examiner.

      Thanks

      Chris

      Reply
      • Replies to Chris B (DVSA)>

        Comment by Keith Willicombe posted on

        Still not clear on this, so you count pulling up on the right as different to Parking on the right? What about your examples of situations where you are trying to justify this - pulling in to pop to the shop or post a letter, surely once you have turned the engine off you're parked in those situations. So on returning to your car you are pulling off from a parked position against the rules of the Highway code, By the way can you explain the difference in terminology between 'do not' and 'must not' - I always thought they meant the same thing 'do not feed the animals' 'do not put your head out of the train window' 'do not drop litter' but now I know it's just advise if I lose my head or get fined i'll refer them to you and you can explain they have grammatical got it wrong and should have put 'must not' in their sentence as 'do not' means something else.

        Reply
        • Replies to Keith Willicombe>

          Comment by John (DVSA) posted on

          Hi Keith

          The Highway Code introduction explains how the wording works:

          Many of the rules in the Code are legal requirements, and if you disobey these rules you are committing a criminal offence. You may be fined, given penalty points on your licence or be disqualified from driving. In the most serious cases you may be sent to prison. Such rules are identified by the use of the words ‘MUST/MUST NOT’. In addition, the rule includes an abbreviated reference to the legislation which creates the offence. See an explanation of the abbreviations.

          Although failure to comply with the other rules of the Code will not, in itself, cause a person to be prosecuted, The Highway Code may be used in evidence in any court proceedings under the Traffic Acts to establish liability. This includes rules which use advisory wording such as ‘should/should not’ or ‘do/do not’.

          The full version of The Highway Code is available here: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code

          Thanks
          John

          Reply
  59. Comment by Ken posted on

    I think that some of the points made by other ADIs about the new test makes sence
    But if we are teaching pupils not just to pass a test but to drive safely for life all if the new parts and old parts should be taught
    However I personal think the test should be longer allowing fast roads to play a part also when I started teaching the test included all the manouers at that time the turn in the road and the left reverse and always an emergency stop
    If the test was longer then at lest two manouers could be completed together with faster roads etc
    The examiner should then be able to look at the pupil over a longer time
    Therefore giving better judgment
    to the pupils over all driving skills
    Keep the test to 40 mins with 20 mins sat nav make and have a few new manovers i feel very little difference to on going road safely
    I think if we really want to impove on road safety
    Min number of logged lessons with a ADI and longer tests
    Is one of the answers

    Reply
  60. Comment by Nigel posted on

    The real problem for newly qualified drivers is that they are subjected to very poor driving habits from many so called experienced drivers. Most driving instructors and examiners are doing a decent job. When a candidate has passed, a number of them will and do subconsciously follow other drivers poor habits no matter what or how they have been taught. The way to get improved standards of driving is maybe to have ongoing driver education for everyone . From what I witness every day, it is basic errors that cause the majority of problems on the road, wrong way round mini roundabouts, cutting approach to turn right, speeding up too early to higher speed limits, slowing too late for lower limits, driving too close just to name a few. Surely no instructor teaches such techniques and no examiner issue pass certificates for them. A 40 minute driving test can be altered as often as you like but a new driver can be quite quickly seduced by the habit of others. The government need to encourage more policing of these dangerous habits and introduce legislation with regard to driver checks which might just improve safety on the roads not just for the new driver but for every one.

    Reply
  61. Comment by Stephen posted on

    The instructions given when carrying out the bay parking exercise don't appear to flow correctly :-

    "I'd like you to drive forward into a convenient parking bay, finishing within the lines, either to the left or right (if car park allows it)". Does this not mean to the left or right of the lines?

    Surely it's more correct to say :-

    "I'd like you to drive forward into a convenient parking bay, either to the left or right etc, etc"

    Even in the training video the examiners has to clarify his own instructions.

    Reply
  62. Comment by Julie Hawes posted on

    38-40 minutes simply isn't enough to prove competence. Cramming in another 10 mins of indie driving is a poor solution to the growing problem of bad driving, some of it deliberate or lazy, but mostly it's a lack of full knowledge. Addressing how to get drivers to continue their driver education is the key. We need a programme of advanced training that attracts many not, just a few here and there on a Sunday morning. The cost of the driving test has risen steadily, but people will still pay a test fee to do whatever it takes to get that licence, except enough driving lessons.

    Talk more to Rospa and Iam, make advanced skills more attractive to all. Insurers/ police could refer anyone involved in an accident for a driving review.

    A little learning is a dangerous thing, by making the learning feel even less relevant to some groups you are storing up trouble.

    Reply
  63. Comment by G .Bains posted on

    Good comments by almost everyone.Agreed that some of these changes are true to life so let them carry on.Parking on the right and reversing for about two car lengths is not very safe on very busy roads these days unless of course you are on a one way street.The rest of the stuff shoud be accepted without any problems. ....

    Reply
  64. Comment by David Clarke posted on

    My two-penneth.
    Fully agree with the sat-nav inclusion. Over half of motorists have them and will use them on the move, as I do. I find the additional information useful such as the advance notice of when the next junction is coming up. I remember well though the first time I used one as an experienced motorist of 35 years, I had to tell myself to still watch out for the road e.g. give way at a crossroads when the route line on the satnav just shows to go ahead. Learners need to be prepared for using this device to get its benefits but not be adversely distracted or misled by it. I teach my pupils to follow it but am ready for mistakes when they try it.

    Mixed feelings on the park on the right. A pupil should know how to do it safely in case they have to, but we as ADI's need to also be advising not to use it if possible. A mixed message which is tricky. Also a lot of lessons are given in the evening after work/college so during the darker evenings don't we risk committing an offence? Expect the response to be to leave it to daytime lessons but some of my pupils have to do the majority of their learning during darker evenings.

    And I will mourn the passing of the turn in the road which I see as an essential to basic car manoeuvring. It will naturally hardly get taught if not on the test and people will likely be spending longer in the middle of the road trying to turn round if they're not a natural at manoeuvring the car and have not been shown how. And will they have done appropriate observations before putting their car across the road as a big hazard? Given the way I have to drill observations into my pupils I suspect not. Reverse left am a bit less worried about, I think anyone reasonably competent could get the car round the corner but observations may not be adequate again.

    Reply

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